Steve Holden's Blog

Stupid DRM Photos From JC Penny

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I was shocked to learn that our 2006 family and kids Christmas pictures we took at JCPenny have digital rights management (DRM) features that makes it relatively impossible to scan into a visually usable graphics file using a recently purchased scanner.

When I scan them on my HP C3100 I end up with a grainy, very unattractive picture.  I was getting all mad at the scanner for sucking until I read the back of the pictures with the following warning: "Kodak Professional Endura Paper – Professional Images Are Copyright Protected – Do Not Copy."

Darn right frustrating! 😦

If there is a DIY hack, please let me know.  I’m off to investigate, and I’ll keep you posted.

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42 responses to “Stupid DRM Photos From JC Penny”

  1. Mad Marv Avatar
    Mad Marv

    Are you sure its copy protection? That line sounds like a “Do not remove label from mattress” warning.
    Marv

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  2. Mad Marv Avatar
    Mad Marv

    Are you sure its copy protection? That line sounds like a “Do not remove label from mattress” warning.
    Marv

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  3. Steve Holden Avatar
    Steve Holden

    I think it is copy protection. I can’t copy my pictures that I paid for my own use. Seems like a violation of Fair Use.
    From the JCPenny website:
    “Portraits — All images created by JCPenney Portraits are the property of Lifetouch Inc. and its subsidiaries (collectively “Lifetouch”), our licensing partners, or are used with permission.”
    Steve

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  4. Mad Marv Avatar
    Mad Marv

    Well, how about asking them directly for the jpgs / negatives? You have a right to those images since you paid to have the photos taken.
    Marv

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  5. Steve Holden Avatar
    Steve Holden

    Apparently you can for an extra fee get access to their website and get digital images. But that is an extra cost. So, the DRM is a way to encourage (ie. extort) additional revenue.
    Steve

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  6. Steve Holden Avatar
    Steve Holden

    I think it is copy protection. I can’t copy my pictures that I paid for my own use. Seems like a violation of Fair Use.
    From the JCPenny website:
    “Portraits — All images created by JCPenney Portraits are the property of Lifetouch Inc. and its subsidiaries (collectively “Lifetouch”), our licensing partners, or are used with permission.”
    Steve

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  7. Mad Marv Avatar
    Mad Marv

    Well, how about asking them directly for the jpgs / negatives? You have a right to those images since you paid to have the photos taken.
    Marv

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  8. Steve Holden Avatar
    Steve Holden

    Apparently you can for an extra fee get access to their website and get digital images. But that is an extra cost. So, the DRM is a way to encourage (ie. extort) additional revenue.
    Steve

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  9. Tom Sidock Avatar
    Tom Sidock

    Steve,
    I feel your pain. I ran into this last year at work. This is really a disclosure issue. The thinking is that you are paying for the photographers time and finished prints. The proofs are a vehicle to get the customer to the final purchase. I do agree, it is very much like DRM. The special surface creates specular reflections back to the scanners camera. This makes the resulting scan useless.
    I did manage to defeat the reflections by puddling some lighter fluid (Naphtha)on the scanner glass and placing the proof in the puddle while scanning. It still required some Photoshop work, but the result was pretty good.
    While Naphtha is a great solvent, it is very specific about which molecules it dissolves, mostly oils. It is also great for removing salad dressing from that new shirt and removing labels from gifts.
    Tom

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  10. Tom Sidock Avatar
    Tom Sidock

    Steve,
    I feel your pain. I ran into this last year at work. This is really a disclosure issue. The thinking is that you are paying for the photographers time and finished prints. The proofs are a vehicle to get the customer to the final purchase. I do agree, it is very much like DRM. The special surface creates specular reflections back to the scanners camera. This makes the resulting scan useless.
    I did manage to defeat the reflections by puddling some lighter fluid (Naphtha)on the scanner glass and placing the proof in the puddle while scanning. It still required some Photoshop work, but the result was pretty good.
    While Naphtha is a great solvent, it is very specific about which molecules it dissolves, mostly oils. It is also great for removing salad dressing from that new shirt and removing labels from gifts.
    Tom

    Like

    Reply
  11. steve Avatar
    steve

    Unfortunately its popping up all over the place, I even heard that they might (if they haven’t already, who knows how old what I read is) lower the sound quality of the line in on the sound cards upon the creation of DRM USB music devices such as mic’s, electric piano, etc. They want everything to be controllable, its the new digital revolution but….
    Bottom line is for whatever we buy and sell, these companies can protect their stuff to charge whatever they want but people who feel they can do better, cheaper, who are frustrated with these games can come up with amateur setups and offer all cheaper and minimally protected – competatively.
    Example: Suppose I say, ok I hate this lockdown stuff, come to me and ill take the photos (im not saying this, im just making an example) and I will offer you the pictures and open scanning rights for 1/2 the price. Now JCPenney just lost customers, now maybe JCPenney wants to remove all that lockdown and lower their prices.
    Microsoft has to make sure everyone has lockdown protection, that doesn’t mean everyone has to use it but here is the problem, these people are laughing at us, I don’t think they believe they will see an amateur competitive market emerge.. another words, where is the competitive.. amateur music performer, movie creators or in your case, photographers. We have the power to compete but i fail to see these competitors emerging. As long as people go to the higher cost options is as long as we will be controlled by them.
    A great idea online would be, for instance, the independent media sales site, it would host and randomly (in a fair and even way) allow you to play trailers from amateurs who want to make their own movies or music, you would see the costs and the permissions for the material you’d buy. For example: I’d go on this site, check out what I think is a cool love story and it would say, Create DVD Copies = Yes (No Limit), maybe its $4.95 to own and only $0.50 to rent, no movie companies are like, oh no, we have to lower our prices but it would really take people to be frustrated enough to say bend or where gone no matter what the media is, in your case, a photo scanned.

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  12. steve Avatar
    steve

    Unfortunately its popping up all over the place, I even heard that they might (if they haven’t already, who knows how old what I read is) lower the sound quality of the line in on the sound cards upon the creation of DRM USB music devices such as mic’s, electric piano, etc. They want everything to be controllable, its the new digital revolution but….
    Bottom line is for whatever we buy and sell, these companies can protect their stuff to charge whatever they want but people who feel they can do better, cheaper, who are frustrated with these games can come up with amateur setups and offer all cheaper and minimally protected – competatively.
    Example: Suppose I say, ok I hate this lockdown stuff, come to me and ill take the photos (im not saying this, im just making an example) and I will offer you the pictures and open scanning rights for 1/2 the price. Now JCPenney just lost customers, now maybe JCPenney wants to remove all that lockdown and lower their prices.
    Microsoft has to make sure everyone has lockdown protection, that doesn’t mean everyone has to use it but here is the problem, these people are laughing at us, I don’t think they believe they will see an amateur competitive market emerge.. another words, where is the competitive.. amateur music performer, movie creators or in your case, photographers. We have the power to compete but i fail to see these competitors emerging. As long as people go to the higher cost options is as long as we will be controlled by them.
    A great idea online would be, for instance, the independent media sales site, it would host and randomly (in a fair and even way) allow you to play trailers from amateurs who want to make their own movies or music, you would see the costs and the permissions for the material you’d buy. For example: I’d go on this site, check out what I think is a cool love story and it would say, Create DVD Copies = Yes (No Limit), maybe its $4.95 to own and only $0.50 to rent, no movie companies are like, oh no, we have to lower our prices but it would really take people to be frustrated enough to say bend or where gone no matter what the media is, in your case, a photo scanned.

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  13. Helio Avatar
    Helio

    Hello, I did a google search on the paper that you mentioned, and from Kodak’s site:
    Do I need to use a scanner target when scanning images on ULTRA ENDURA Paper?
    The imaging dyes in the ENDURA Papers peak at different wavelengths from those in the previous generation of papers. This affects the way print scanners see the various colors. Therefore, you should calibrate your scanner with a scanner target produced from ENDURA Papers—KODAK PROFESSIONAL Q-60 Color Input Target / Q-60R2.
    I don’t have a scanner, so I don’t know if all scanners have the ability to change the target. I hope this was helpful.

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  14. Helio Avatar
    Helio

    Hello, I did a google search on the paper that you mentioned, and from Kodak’s site:
    Do I need to use a scanner target when scanning images on ULTRA ENDURA Paper?
    The imaging dyes in the ENDURA Papers peak at different wavelengths from those in the previous generation of papers. This affects the way print scanners see the various colors. Therefore, you should calibrate your scanner with a scanner target produced from ENDURA Papers—KODAK PROFESSIONAL Q-60 Color Input Target / Q-60R2.
    I don’t have a scanner, so I don’t know if all scanners have the ability to change the target. I hope this was helpful.

    Like

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  15. Mike Avatar
    Mike

    This was fun.. I just scanned some holiday pictures and you’re right.. i’ve got white pixelation everywhere. I’ve scanned plenty in the past, oh well. If anyone has a “work” around to defeat this Special Paper, please let us know. Because i paid the extra 5 bucks for the online access and they are very low res, they are only to help you re-order and share with friends and family, but you couldn’t print those for anything, maybe a wallet size.

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  16. Mike Avatar
    Mike

    This was fun.. I just scanned some holiday pictures and you’re right.. i’ve got white pixelation everywhere. I’ve scanned plenty in the past, oh well. If anyone has a “work” around to defeat this Special Paper, please let us know. Because i paid the extra 5 bucks for the online access and they are very low res, they are only to help you re-order and share with friends and family, but you couldn’t print those for anything, maybe a wallet size.

    Like

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  17. Dave Avatar
    Dave

    I successfully removed the white specks using the ‘Salt and Pepper Filter’ in Paint Shop Pro.

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  18. Dave Avatar
    Dave

    I successfully removed the white specks using the ‘Salt and Pepper Filter’ in Paint Shop Pro.

    Like

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  19. Karen Avatar
    Karen

    I just scanned my jcpenny portraits onto a cd at walmart with their kodak scanner. Turned out as clear as the original.
    Does anyone know if JC Penny still owns the copyright after 90 days when the proofs are no longer available for reorder???

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  20. Karen Avatar
    Karen

    I just scanned my jcpenny portraits onto a cd at walmart with their kodak scanner. Turned out as clear as the original.
    Does anyone know if JC Penny still owns the copyright after 90 days when the proofs are no longer available for reorder???

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  21. Steve Holden Avatar
    Steve Holden

    Karen — this is good info. I don’t know the answer to your copyright question.

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  22. Steve Holden Avatar
    Steve Holden

    Karen — this is good info. I don’t know the answer to your copyright question.

    Like

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  23. melissa c Avatar
    melissa c

    I had the same problem with my son’s Lifetouch school pics–I usually buy the smallest package & upload them to my computer.
    I had never used my HP scanner & thought that it was the culprit–when I scanned to my computer, I ended up with a gray pinstripe down the picture. When I scanned another picture that I had taken, it came out fine!

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  24. melissa c Avatar
    melissa c

    I had the same problem with my son’s Lifetouch school pics–I usually buy the smallest package & upload them to my computer.
    I had never used my HP scanner & thought that it was the culprit–when I scanned to my computer, I ended up with a gray pinstripe down the picture. When I scanned another picture that I had taken, it came out fine!

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  25. Steve Holden Avatar
    Steve Holden

    That is a bummer. I think it is happening more and more now. My wife was able to take a pretty good digital picture of a printed picture. You might try that.

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  26. Steve Holden Avatar
    Steve Holden

    That is a bummer. I think it is happening more and more now. My wife was able to take a pretty good digital picture of a printed picture. You might try that.

    Like

    Reply
  27. Adrienne Avatar
    Adrienne

    I picked up my engagement photos from JC Penny today, and after reading this blog I scaned one of the photos. The back of the photo says the same thing as yours, but they turned out perfectly clear. Weird. :\

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  28. Adrienne Avatar
    Adrienne

    I picked up my engagement photos from JC Penny today, and after reading this blog I scaned one of the photos. The back of the photo says the same thing as yours, but they turned out perfectly clear. Weird. :\

    Like

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  29. Steve Holden Avatar
    Steve Holden

    Adrienne, That is good to know … maybe the scanners are getting better. I might have to try another picture from a photo place now that I have newer scanner.

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  30. Steve Holden Avatar
    Steve Holden

    Adrienne, That is good to know … maybe the scanners are getting better. I might have to try another picture from a photo place now that I have newer scanner.

    Like

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  31. Tom (tom@darkhorse-photo.com) [71.89.0.164] Avatar
    Tom (tom@darkhorse-photo.com) [71.89.0.164]

    Steve – They are not extorting you. You were given the prints which is what you ordered. Unless you specifically told JcPenny that you wanted digital copies then they completed your order properly. Dont complain that you cant scan the picture. If you wanted to have them on your computer. Then you should have asked for those as well.

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  32. Tom (tom@darkhorse-photo.com) [71.89.0.164] Avatar
    Tom (tom@darkhorse-photo.com) [71.89.0.164]

    Steve – They are not extorting you. You were given the prints which is what you ordered. Unless you specifically told JcPenny that you wanted digital copies then they completed your order properly. Dont complain that you cant scan the picture. If you wanted to have them on your computer. Then you should have asked for those as well.

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  33. Digital Photo Frames Avatar
    Digital Photo Frames

    Good post is like good cooking.
    it can be tasted,but not explained.

    Like

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  34. Digital Photo Frames Avatar
    Digital Photo Frames

    Good post is like good cooking.
    it can be tasted,but not explained.

    Like

    Reply
  35. Jonathan Avatar
    Jonathan

    I agree with Tom. As a photographer, I understand where JCPenny is coming from. Unless you were specifically given all the rights to your images by the company, you do not own the right to duplicate your photographs. Doing so is against U.S. Copyright law. As the creator of a work, the photographer or company the photographer works for holds all the rights to the work unless the copyright is transfered. It is the same law the makes downloading free music illegal. The company is not “extorting” you. They are simply operating on a principle that protects them and has been in place for years.

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  36. Jonathan Avatar
    Jonathan

    I agree with Tom. As a photographer, I understand where JCPenny is coming from. Unless you were specifically given all the rights to your images by the company, you do not own the right to duplicate your photographs. Doing so is against U.S. Copyright law. As the creator of a work, the photographer or company the photographer works for holds all the rights to the work unless the copyright is transfered. It is the same law the makes downloading free music illegal. The company is not “extorting” you. They are simply operating on a principle that protects them and has been in place for years.

    Like

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  37. Toni Avatar
    Toni

    JC penney has become a rip off. They were charging $100 for the disk w/ the digital rights on it, which went up to $150 between May of 2010 and Christmas of 2010. They also reduced the amount of photos you get on that disk. It is now only 20 pics. They rush you through your session (15 min intervals), then rush you through picking out your photos. It’s getting to where it’s worth just going to a pro photograher that you make a deal w/up front. WHen my kids modeled, we used to pay him $50 an hour and he gave us the rights to anything he took. And he took us anywhere we wanted to go. (beach, park, etc.) was definitely worth it! You only had to buy his basic package w/that which was very reasonable. I don’t mind paying for good work, but Penney’s sucks and there’s not many options near us. Half the time they don’t even have the props they advertise when you book from their site. I always hear..”oh, not all Penney’s have the props”. How about NO Penney’s ever have the props except the advertising agency working for them??!! Maybe if the pictures were really great and I was extremely happy with them I wouldn’t think twice about paying $150 for the rights to 20 great pics, but most times, your lucky to get one or two good ones.. they just give you 20 different pictures made from maybe the same 3 shots that came out good if your lucky!

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  38. Toni Avatar
    Toni

    JC penney has become a rip off. They were charging $100 for the disk w/ the digital rights on it, which went up to $150 between May of 2010 and Christmas of 2010. They also reduced the amount of photos you get on that disk. It is now only 20 pics. They rush you through your session (15 min intervals), then rush you through picking out your photos. It’s getting to where it’s worth just going to a pro photograher that you make a deal w/up front. WHen my kids modeled, we used to pay him $50 an hour and he gave us the rights to anything he took. And he took us anywhere we wanted to go. (beach, park, etc.) was definitely worth it! You only had to buy his basic package w/that which was very reasonable. I don’t mind paying for good work, but Penney’s sucks and there’s not many options near us. Half the time they don’t even have the props they advertise when you book from their site. I always hear..”oh, not all Penney’s have the props”. How about NO Penney’s ever have the props except the advertising agency working for them??!! Maybe if the pictures were really great and I was extremely happy with them I wouldn’t think twice about paying $150 for the rights to 20 great pics, but most times, your lucky to get one or two good ones.. they just give you 20 different pictures made from maybe the same 3 shots that came out good if your lucky!

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  39. Krista Avatar
    Krista

    I tried to scan my son’s school pictures (from Lifetouch) too. It was coming through all speckled too. I changed my settings to scan a color document at 600dpi and it came though just fine. Hope this helps!!

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  40. Krista Avatar
    Krista

    I tried to scan my son’s school pictures (from Lifetouch) too. It was coming through all speckled too. I changed my settings to scan a color document at 600dpi and it came though just fine. Hope this helps!!

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  41. Steve Holden Avatar
    Steve Holden

    Krista — Thanks for the suggestion. I’ll have to give that a try. – Steve

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  42. Steve Holden Avatar
    Steve Holden

    Krista — Thanks for the suggestion. I’ll have to give that a try. – Steve

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